Installing BDE on 64 bit operating system

[Frank M. Cook]

We have a customer who needs to run our CB3 application on 64 bit Vista.
We're under a time deadline because if we can't do this quickly, his time to
return the computer will run out. Our current build fails completely
because we're using the old InstallShield that came with CB3 which is
apparently 16 bit. We're trying to build a new installation for the old
program using the InstallAware that came with CB2007. We can figure out
easily enough how to set it up to get our stuff installed but we're less
confident about getting the BDE installed and we don't have a 64 bit machine
to test on. InstallAware lacks the "install the BDE" option that the old
InstallShield had so we're going to have to do it by hand. I don't think we
can even use Borland's "BDE stub" because that probably also contains
InstallShield stuff that will fail on 64 bit.

Has anyone been down this road?

What files do I need to copy where?

Will I need to make any registry entries or can I avoid that with
configuration files?

I know that even on 32bit Vista I need to check the option box about Win3.1
to force the use of the cfg file instead of registry keys. We'll try having
the installation program set that one key. I'm hoping that with that set we
can just copy files and let our program take it from there without help from
the BDE Administrator.

[Bill Todd [TeamB]]

See http://www.dbginc.com/bdenet/BDENet.html. This paper explains how
to install the BDE on a file server so that you do not have to install
it on each PC, however, IIRC, it does cover what files have to be
installed and the registry entries that must be created so it should
help you.

Note that I have no idea if the BDE will run on 64 bit Windows or not.
Hope this helps.

[Frank M. Cook]

thanks, Bill. I've had that article of yours bookmarked for a long time and
I sent my programmer home with a copy to read tonight. if no one comes
along tonight who has actually done this, we'll see if we can get the
installation program to create the keys from your CreateKeys method. we
probably don't need to use ini files though. we'll just point the keys to
the locations the installer copied the files.

however, I don't see a list of the files that need to be copied in your
article. is it going to be the same set of files that a clean installation
puts into Program Files\Common Files\Borland\BDE?

[Bill Todd [TeamB]]

Post by Frank M. Cook
is it going to be the same set of files that a clean installation
puts into Program Files\Common Files\Borland\BDE?

Yes. Those are the only files you need.

[Frank M. Cook]

InstallAware did run on Vista 64 although we're having some difficulty
getting it to put the files where we asked it to. Not sure yet if that was
our error or Vista protecting Program Files tree. Because time is short,
our next step will be to attempt to simply copy the BDE files in manually
without using an install program, and then to create the Registry entries
manually. That should let us know if the BDE runs in this environment.

If we get over that hurdle, we can also copy our application files from
another computer at the site and see if our stuff works. we think it should
if the BDE is working properly underneath our stuff.

and if we get over both hurdles, we can return to automating the process
using InstallAware. I'll keep you all advised.

[Leslie Milburn]

Post by Frank M. Cook
InstallAware did run on Vista 64 although we're having some difficulty
getting it to put the files where we asked it to. Not sure yet if that
was our error or Vista protecting Program Files tree. Because time is
short, our next step will be to attempt to simply copy the BDE files in
manually without using an install program, and then to create the Registry
entries manually. That should let us know if the BDE runs in this
environment.
If we get over that hurdle, we can also copy our application files from
another computer at the site and see if our stuff works. we think it
should if the BDE is working properly underneath our stuff.
and if we get over both hurdles, we can return to automating the process
using InstallAware. I'll keep you all advised.
--
Frank M. Cook
www.acsplus.com

Hi Frank,

If you search the archives of this group you will find details on how others
successfully installed the BDE under 64 Bit Windows. Remember the key even
for 32 bit Vista is to ensure the cfg file is outside of the program files
folder and that the BDE is configured to use the cfg file rather than the
registry.

Leslie.

[Frank M. Cook]

Remember the key even for 32 bit Vista is to ensure the cfg file is
outside of the program files folder and that the BDE is configured to use
the cfg file rather than the registry.

really? we've had no trouble on 32bit Vista leaving the cfg file in Program
Files\Common Files\Borland\BDE. where are you putting it? we create an
OurCompany directory under the root and put out data there to get it out of
Program Files. should we create a BDE folder under our folder or should put
it in the hidden Application Data folder? we are resisting putting our data
files in Application Data because that would make it too difficult for our
users to back up or to transfer data to new computers.

It looks like they've done some housekeeping and eliminated old messages as
I don't find anything helpful in the old messages. I do have Bill Todd's
network installation instructions. what we're trying to do now is manually
set Registry entries for ConfigFile01, DLLPath, BLAPIPath, and SaveConfig.
We think if we get these four keys set, our application should be able to
take it from there.

if manually setting the four keys gets us working, we'll figure out how to
get InstallAware to automate this process. so far, we seem to have
InstallAware setting keys on XP but not Vista64.

is our list of keys correct?

[Steven Green]

Post by Frank M. Cook
really? we've had no trouble on 32bit Vista leaving the cfg file in
Program Files\Common Files\Borland\BDE. where are you putting it?

based on the theory that the users will not universally have full rights to
the entire drive, you can't use the registry, you can't Program Files, and
you can't use anything else that is an "ordinary" Windows folder.. between
the info here, and the info on the various Paradox and/or BDE newsgroups
elsewhere, you will see many examples of that logic..

the "collective wisdom" is to make you own paths for everything, and to
default the BDE to use you own cfg files (the old Win 3.1 default)

--
Steven Green - Myrtle Beach, South Carolina USA

Diamond Software Group
http://www.diamondsg.com/main.htm
Paradox Support & Sales

Diamond Sports Gems
http://www.diamondsg.com/gemsmain.htm
Sports Memorabilia and Trading Cards

Post by Frank M. Cook

Remember the key even for 32 bit Vista is to ensure the cfg file is
outside of the program files folder and that the BDE is configured to use
the cfg file rather than the registry.

really? we've had no trouble on 32bit Vista leaving the cfg file in
Program Files\Common Files\Borland\BDE. where are you putting it? we
create an OurCompany directory under the root and put out data there to
get it out of Program Files. should we create a BDE folder under our
folder or should put it in the hidden Application Data folder? we are
resisting putting our data files in Application Data because that would
make it too difficult for our users to back up or to transfer data to new
computers.
It looks like they've done some housekeeping and eliminated old messages
as I don't find anything helpful in the old messages. I do have Bill
Todd's network installation instructions. what we're trying to do now is
manually set Registry entries for ConfigFile01, DLLPath, BLAPIPath, and
SaveConfig. We think if we get these four keys set, our application should
be able to take it from there.
if manually setting the four keys gets us working, we'll figure out how to
get InstallAware to automate this process. so far, we seem to have
InstallAware setting keys on XP but not Vista64.
is our list of keys correct?
--
Frank M. Cook
www.acsplus.com

[Frank M. Cook]

Post by Steven Green
based on the theory that the users will not universally have full rights
to the entire drive, you can't use the registry, you can't Program Files,
and you can't use anything else that is an "ordinary" Windows folder..
between the info here, and the info on the various Paradox and/or BDE
newsgroups elsewhere, you will see many examples of that logic..

I haven't checked the Paradox groups. that's a good idea even though we use
dBase files.

Post by Steven Green
the "collective wisdom" is to make you own paths for everything, and to
default the BDE to use you own cfg files (the old Win 3.1 default)

we do use cfg files. I'm a little confused by the notion that you make your
own paths but don't use "ordinary" windows folders. we've been putting our
data in our own path but that is what I'd call an ordinary folder. I don't
see the issue in some users not having rights to that folder. if a user
wants to create a rights system to limit access to our program, why should I
defeat that by putting my data in all users\application data?

[Steven Green]

I'm a little confused by the notion that you make your own paths but don't
use "ordinary" windows folders.

don't use Program Files or any other folder that Windows put there by
default.. the ability to put your own stuff under there depends on *many*
things under Vista..

it would be so much easier to say "don't use Vista".. but not everyone has
that option..

--
Steven Green - Myrtle Beach, South Carolina USA

Diamond Software Group
http://www.diamondsg.com/main.htm
Paradox Support & Sales

Diamond Sports Gems
http://www.diamondsg.com/gemsmain.htm
Sports Memorabilia and Trading Cards

Post by Steven Green
based on the theory that the users will not universally have full rights
to the entire drive, you can't use the registry, you can't Program Files,
and you can't use anything else that is an "ordinary" Windows folder..
between the info here, and the info on the various Paradox and/or BDE
newsgroups elsewhere, you will see many examples of that logic..

I haven't checked the Paradox groups. that's a good idea even though we
use dBase files.

Post by Steven Green
the "collective wisdom" is to make you own paths for everything, and to
default the BDE to use you own cfg files (the old Win 3.1 default)

we do use cfg files. I'm a little confused by the notion that you make
your own paths but don't use "ordinary" windows folders. we've been
putting our data in our own path but that is what I'd call an ordinary
folder. I don't see the issue in some users not having rights to that
folder. if a user wants to create a rights system to limit access to our
program, why should I defeat that by putting my data in all
users\application data?
--
Frank M. Cook
www.acsplus.com

[Frank M. Cook]

Post by Steven Green

I'm a little confused by the notion that you make your own paths but
don't use "ordinary" windows folders.

don't use Program Files or any other folder that Windows put there by
default

ah, now I understand. by ordinary you meant the folders that are normally
there and not files that aren't special in some way. yes, I fully agree that
database files don't go under program files and for simplicity we've had
most of our Vista users install our whole program elsewhere.

[Frank M. Cook]

So far we are totally failing. We can open the BDE Administrator (which we
run as administrator) and we check the win3.1 box but whenever we try to
save the configuration file it says it can't write to it. we've tried
relocating the files and changing the registry keys but no matter what we do
the BDE Administrator seems be running itself from Program Files\Common
Files etc. unfortunately we're a 1000 miles from the customer. it feels
like something may have hardcoded the default location unless something is
getting lost trying to instruct the user over the phone. we may have to buy
a 64 bit machine to debug this but I hate to do that if this is hopeless.

does anyone know for sure whether it is possible to get the BDE to work
under 64 bit Vista?

if it can be done, I'll figure it out for this customer even if I have to
buy a computer here to test on. but if others have already been down this
road and failed, I'd sure like to know that now.

[Bob Swart]

Hi Frank,

Post by Frank M. Cook
does anyone know for sure whether it is possible to get the BDE to work
under 64 bit Vista?

A client of mine has tried for a long time, and failed, which has lead
to a migration project from BDE to dbExpress...

I'm 99% certain that the BDE will not work on 64-bit Windows Vista.

Groetjes,
Bob Swart

[Frank M. Cook]

Post by Bob Swart
I'm 99% certain that the BDE will not work on 64-bit Windows Vista.

thanks, Bob. that's also the conclusion we were coming to. we've got a
long term plan to migrate out and have even bought a Nexus license although
I suppose the CodeGear sale will eventually create other options if we wait
long enough. we're table driven so going to an SQL back end isn't our first
choice.

I suppose the last hope for this customer to avoid taking back this computer
would be to abandon his plan to use it as a server and make it a
workstation. perhaps then we could just edit the Registry on this computer
to tell it to run the BDE off a 32 bit server. that would push all the issue
of writing the config file to the other computer. we'd have to leave drive
letters off the registry entries (or use a subst on the other computer) to
get around the problem of having the files be in C: something on the server
and Z: something when we map in but it might work. however, I think this
customer has run out of time and is probably returning the computer as I
write this. he had until the close of business tonight to do so and last
time we called he was out so we think he's on his way to the store.

[Frank M. Cook]

Post by Frank M. Cook
I suppose the last hope for this customer to avoid taking back this
computer would be to abandon his plan to use it as a server and make it a
workstation. perhaps then we could just edit the Registry on this
computer to tell it to run the BDE off a 32 bit server.

that didn't work either. so it's not just the BDE Administrator that konks
on 64 bit Vista, the BDE itself does not work correctly.

[Franz-Leo Chomse]

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:58:52 -0400, "Frank M. Cook"

Post by Frank M. Cook
I suppose the last hope for this customer to avoid taking back this computer
would be to abandon his plan to use it as a server and make it a
workstation. perhaps then we could just edit the Registry on this computer
to tell it to run the BDE off a 32 bit server. that would push all the issue
of writing the config file to the other computer. we'd have to leave drive
letters off the registry entries (or use a subst on the other computer) to
get around the problem of having the files be in C: something on the server
and Z: something when we map in but it might work. however, I think this
customer has run out of time and is probably returning the computer as I
write this. he had until the close of business tonight to do so and last
time we called he was out so we think he's on his way to the store.

Install VirtualPC and run the BDE in a XP environment

Regards from Germany

Franz-Leo

[Frank M. Cook]

Post by Franz-Leo Chomse
Install VirtualPC and run the BDE in a XP environment

he took his main 64 bit computer back but he's keeping a 64 bit laptop. we
can try that. good suggestion.

[Frank M. Cook]

had this come up again today. has anyone got the BDE to work in 64 bit
Vista yet without using Virtual PC?

[Leslie Milburn]

Post by Frank M. Cook
had this come up again today. has anyone got the BDE to work in 64 bit
Vista yet without using Virtual PC?
--
Frank M. Cook

Hi Frank,

My understanding is that many people have it working perfectly. The key is
to install the BDE outside of any program files folder eg C:\BDE. I cannot
remember any more detail than that, but you could try the paradox groups and
ask there.

Leslie.

[Frank M. Cook]

<<My understanding is that many people have it working perfectly. The key is
to install the BDE outside of any program files folder eg C:\BDE. I cannot
remember any more detail than that, but you could try the paradox groups and
ask there.>>

We tried that without success. I think part of the problem may be that the
installshield version that we had been using from CB3 is an old version that
is itself incompatible with 64 bit. we tried to use the InstallAware
version from CB2007 but it doesn't have an automatic installation program
for the BDE so we were trying to install it by hand simply by copying the
appropriate files and making the registry entries manually and it just
fought us. (we were trying to talk a user through the process over the
telephone and who knows what might have gotten lost in translation.) I'm
thinking we might need to be using an installation program that knows how to
install the BDE and lets us tell it where to put it and how to setup the
registry.

anyone got a recommended installation program that knows about the BDE?

also where are these paradox groups you want me to look in? I don't see them
on borland.public.*

[Bill Todd [TeamB]]

Post by Frank M. Cook
also where are these paradox groups you want me to look in? I don't
see them on borland.public.*

http://www.thedbcommunity.com/ Paradox for Windows is not a
Borland/CodeGear/Embarcadero product.

[Leslie Milburn]

Post by Frank M. Cook
So far we are totally failing. We can open the BDE Administrator (which
we run as administrator) and we check the win3.1 box but whenever we try
to save the configuration file it says it can't write to it. we've tried
relocating the files and changing the registry keys but no matter what we
do the BDE Administrator seems be running itself from Program Files\Common
Files etc. unfortunately we're a 1000 miles from the customer. it feels
like something may have hardcoded the default location unless something is
getting lost trying to instruct the user over the phone. we may have to
buy a 64 bit machine to debug this but I hate to do that if this is
hopeless.
does anyone know for sure whether it is possible to get the BDE to work
under 64 bit Vista?
if it can be done, I'll figure it out for this customer even if I have to
buy a computer here to test on. but if others have already been down this
road and failed, I'd sure like to know that now.
--
Frank M. Cook
www.acsplus.com

Hi Frank,

Place the entire BDE in a folder lets say <WINDIR>:\Legacy\BDE and ensure
that all BDE registry settings point to that folder. Ensure that permissions
are set to allow Limited Privilege Users to read/write/execute the contents
of that folder and you may even have to set permissions of the Registry Keys
as well (I cannot remember and do not currently have a 64 Bit OS available
to me). Whilst running as Administrator you should again try the Win3.1
option. Then you need to reboot.

I cannot guarantee for sure under Vista 64 but I see no reason why not as it
works fine under XP 64 and the only real difference is the enhanced
Permissions enforced by Vista.

Thats it.
Leslie.

[Frank M. Cook]

thanks, Leslie but we ran out of time. I think this is something we won't
be able to solve without getting our hands on an actual Vista64 computer.
doing it over the telephone didn't work. you may be on the track of the
issue when you suggest some permission error with respect to the registry.
we never could get the BDE Administrator to save the configuration file
regardless of where we located it. unless someone else actually does this
and posts a solution, there's a good chance that we'll migrate to a
different backend before we buy a 64 bit computer solely as a test bed.

[m***@gmail.com]

http://alexandrecmachado.blogspot.com/2012/01/bde-and-windows-7-32-and-64-bits.html